Public Option Distortions and the Dangers of the Individual Mandate

Comment

Comment by ROGER BARNHART on October 3, 2009 at 2:44pm

The Senate Finance Committee does not post a fax #. I called the other day and the young lady told me that they must have forgotten to post in on the site.
She did give it to me and it is 202-228-0554.
I faxed them on the 28th and sent it to all of my email contacts. I plan on faxing them again on Monday.
Please send them a fax and pass the number along.
Thanks and keep the Faith, Roger

Comment by Jim Johnson aka JJ on October 3, 2009 at 2:20pm

Mandatory health insurance direly needs to be killed. It is unconstitutional to say the least. The propaganda motivator is that mandatory auto insurance is common. Do NOT compare the two. Auto insuance mandates you must insure against a liability to the other person. It does not mandate coverage for yourself or your vehicle. Better to compare a yellow elephant to a purple giraffe. What mandatory insurance does do is make us slaves of the government and under government control to any thing they feel affects the cost of health care, such as over weght, smoking, travel, hunting, attending various functions where we may pick up some virus. An excellent way of keeping protesting objectors to a minimum. Simply declare it a health risk!

No... NO MANDATORY HEALTH INSURANCE UNDER ANY CONDITION!!!

For Freedom!!!! JJ

Comment by Chuck Jones on October 2, 2009 at 12:56am

You're right that the individual option has not received appropriate attention. We need to recognize the powers at play here. We have the authoritarian left joining forces with big insurance and big pharma. The Washington Post has reported on their heavy lobbying for the individual mandate. So, it's not just the loony lefties - who always lost vs Bush. It's them and their new allies, allies that are major economic and political powers. Big insurance may not like the public 'option', but they sure do like the individual mandate. It means $billions to them from new customers. For the authoritarian left, the individual mandate is a great way - the best way - to reshape American culture. It's being reported today that overweight people (a high proportion of Americans) and smokers could have to pay 30-50% more for the pubic 'option' insurance than others. One can imagine all the other segments of our society that would come under the federal government's control eventually. They'll divide and conquer - first picking off the overweight and smokers (O'Reilly's show played along by showing only truly obese people whenever mentioning this.) What would prevent them from charging more of those who have guns in the home? Maybe women over 35 would have to pay more if they decide to have children. Where ever liberals could find a correlation between behavior and health (even though mere correlations do not prove causation), we'd hear about another group having - and I repeat the word "having" - to pay more for health insurance. Having in the sense that we will have to buy it, whether we want it or not. And if we're overweight, or if we smoke or have guns in the home or whatever the liberals don't approve of, we'll be compelled to pay a lot more for insurance. Pay up or face the IRS, fines and possible jail. There would be no better way than a compulsive government plan to change behavior. Where Congress could not pass a law against a behavior, liberals could count on the government plan to get the job done. (Let's stop calling it the "public option" - there's no option here. It government coerced insurance.)

Comment by Liberty on October 1, 2009 at 10:41am

JGL, James Joyner link didn't work so I found it.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/health_insurance_mandates/

Comment by Liberty on October 1, 2009 at 9:53am

Steve, great info here, I'm posting on my public blog.

Comment by JGL on October 1, 2009 at 7:22am

Conservatives and the GOP are missing an opportunity to expose Democratic inconsistencies on the Individual Mandate. Now that they need Trillions to fund their Health Care takeover, they are MUST have the tax revenue that the Individual Mandates would bring in with the fines, Insurance Taxes, etc.

Well, guess who didn’t support AND viciously attacked supporters of Individual Mandates during last years Democratic primaries?

I you said President Obama and VP Biden, give yourself an A!

And the Individual Mandate should be an easy target for conservatives and the GOP to attack since President Obama has done a huge 180 from his campaign promises!

Here is a great article by James Joyner about just how vigorous his opposition to Individual Mandates used to be:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/arc...ance_mandates/

From the mouth of then Candidate Obama:

“If you look at auto insurance, in California there’s mandatory auto insurance,” Obama explained. “Twenty-five percent of the folks don’t have it. The reason is because they can’t afford it. So John and I, we’re not that different in this sense; that I’m committed to starting the process. Everybody who wants it can buy it and it’s affordable. If we have some gaps remaining, we will work on that. You take it from the opposite direction, but you’re still going to have some folks who aren’t insured under your plan, John, because some of them will simply not be able to afford to buy the coverage they’re offered.”

Can we see some flip-flop adds please? The debate where he said this is on Video – why isn’t this on Fox, commercials, etc and juxtaposed to his current statements where he literally gushes over in his praise for using government force to compel you to buy a private product against your will?

Here is a link to the video with a great critic by President Obama himself on why the Individual Mandates are BAD:

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...l#comment-form


These individual mandates are a huge tax increase on the young and healthy to pay for the uninsured. They violate your liberties and are unconstitutional. As a candidate, President Obama rightly and sensibly was on the correct side of this issue when he correctly opposed the Individual Mandate.

The American people have a right to know why he changed his position on this so suddenly.

Is it because he needs trillions of your dollars in new taxes to pay for the uninsured?

Is it because he wants to compel everyone to participate in his federal government dominate insurance market so that Washington politicians can control your medical care and insurance choices?

Or is it because he has cut a backroom deal with the largest and richest insurance companies in this country to give them millions of new customers in exchange for their support of his plan?

If his plan will really, truly give us cheaper private insurance and more choices, why do people have to be forced to participate on penalty of law?

We deserve an straight answer and need to ask the media and our elected representatives to demand one now.

This video needs to be shown in the conservative media and President Obama needs to be called out for his Flip-flop on Individual Mandates until we get a honest answer!

Comment by JGL on October 1, 2009 at 5:25am

All conservatives need wake up now or we will lose the HC battle by falling for a fake compromise and accept an Individual Mandate.



The left's new push amounts to a straight up emotional appeal to people's worst instincts.



Its pure appeal to envy and arrogance based on false information.



Here is supposed "moderate" Ben Nelson out pushing new poll-tested Democrat talking points:



“Nelson said his primary concern is that any health care bill control
soaring costs. Without action, he said, costs will rise 9 percent next
year. The average Nebraska family insurance premium rose 69 percent from
2000 to 2007, he said. Wages rose 21 percent during that time, he said.

The result is that 225,000 Nebraskans, or nearly 13 percent of the
population, don’t have health coverage, and Nebraska businesses and
families shoulder a hidden tax of $1,000 per year on premiums to pay for
the uninsured."



The information is of course false - the so-called "free rider" cost cite is not $1000 but $200 per family less the 1% of there premiums annually!



Snowe and Bennett from the Republican party have already fallen in line to support the individual mandate.



And I have read many blog comments and heard many calls on talk radio from supposedly conservative people supporting the mandate because they believe the bogus numbers and react emotionally.



Don’t fall for it - don’t let RINOs sell us out on this.

Don’t let this talking point go unchallenged.



Here are the resources you need to arm yourself with the facts:


Debunking of D myths/talking PTs (essentially Nelson and the left have been pushing talking pts 6,7,8,10, 19, & 20 the author's cite):



http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10583



Here are free market based plans:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10560



The failure of Rommneycare and its mandates:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10488



http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10268



How mandates will be a defacto government run HC:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10576



http://www.publiusforum.com/index.php?s=what+mandates+do+to+our+insurance



http://www.publiusforum.com/2009/09/21/what-mandates-do-to-our-insurance/#more-6857



how "cost shifting" in HC is no more then 1-2% of your costs:



http://townhall.com/columnists/JacobSullum/2009/09/23/does_cost_of_uncompensated_care_justify_forcing_people_to_buy_insurance



http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/7810.pdf



Here is the key quote from Kaiser study:



"The remainder of uncompensated care left to be covered by private dollars is relatively small compared to the $830 billion that will be spent by the privately insured this year (< 2%)"



Conservatives need to challenge any bill with the Individual Mandates in it - the lefts lies about cost need to be exposed.

Comment by Penny on October 1, 2009 at 12:14am

I like the job Senator Patty Murray is doing in Washington State. But I keep contacting her about the Health Care issue, and she just sends me more of the same old, same old.
Here's the last answer I received:

Dear Mrs. Asbury:



Thank you for writing me to share your thoughts on health care reform. It is good to hear from you.



Health care reform is one of the most critical issues facing our nation. Our current health care system is unstable and unsustainable. Too many people do not have health care coverage and many of those who have coverage are worried about losing it in this uncertain economy. Businesses and families are finding it harder and harder to deal with increasing health care premiums.



In addition, Washington state family budgets cannot sustain the continual rise in health care costs and hidden taxes in the form of rising premiums to cover the uninsured. If we do not get health care costs under control, local, state and federal government budgets will have to take on the weight of rising health care costs. While health care reform may require an initial cost investment, I strongly believe that it will pay off in the long term and the cost letting the system become more unstable is much greater. Without reform to our health care system, premiums will continue to rise, coverage will become more uncertain, businesses will lose competitiveness and it will be harder for Americans to have access to care.



After months of hearings and over 50 hours of public markups, I was pleased that on July 15th, the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee passed the Affordable Health Choices Act. The Affordable Health Choices Act lays out policy changes for health care reform in America. This package works to rein in health care costs with a goal of lowering them in the long term and ensure that all Americans have access to high quality, affordable health care coverage. It allows those who like their health insurance to keep it and provides options to those who do not have access to health insurance coverage.



This bill includes provisions to implement several key health insurance reforms. For example, insurance companies would no longer be able to refuse coverage to individuals due to preexisting conditions, patients' out-of-pocket expenses would be limited and all annual and lifetime caps on insurance coverage would be eliminated.



On September 9th, President Obama spoke to a joint session of Congress and outlined what American families and businesses know all too well: our current health care system is simply unsustainable. In fact, the largest private insurer in Washington state raised premiums by seventeen percent last month. It is clear that doing nothing will solve nothing and the status quo is the most expensive option.



The passage of the Affordable Health Choices Act out of the HELP Committee is a major step in the longer process of health care reform. On September 16th, the Senate Finance Committee released their health care reform proposal, America's Healthy Futures Act. I am glad that the Finance Committee has produced a bill and the Finance Committee has begun its process of public markups. The Affordable Health Choices Act will need to be combined with this legislation in the future. This will take a lot of work and compromise, but at the end of the day we all have the same goal of lowering the cost of health care for American families and businesses.



As the Senate moves forward on health care reform legislation, I will be weighing the many concerns that I am hearing from constituents all across Washington state. As this effort continues, I will certainly keep your thoughts in mind. You can find more information on my Website at http://murray.senate.gov/healthcarereform/.



Again, thank you for contacting me about this important issue. If you would like to know more about my work in the Senate, please feel free to sign up for my weekly updates at http://murray.senate.gov/updates. Please keep in touch.



I hope all is well in Carson.


Sincerely,
Patty Murray
United States Senator